[mikebramel]

 

[case680rob]

HUH? :headscratcher:
I'm not seeing the whole picture here, what does all that mean? What's the difference between all those lines besides the pressure? Are these different pumps or fluids or ???

Rob

 

[bhildret]

Sorry, I'm not digging out formulas this early ... but I assume that is a 1 cu in pump that is referenced. What does that equal in flow rate?

More than a P218 can deliver, at the top end for sure.

Brian

 

[kubotakid]

My question is, Why arent the lines smooth? :think: bad gas? :sidelaugh:

kubotakid :usa2:

 

[Hydriv]

A one cubic inch pump would theoretically deliver 15.58 gallons per minute at zero PSI.

What would be the point of installing such a pump on any CCI tractor?


While I thoroughly agree with Mike's message that "you just can't throw a new pump on there", perhaps he should have said that "you can't just throw ANY new pump on there." The pump must be sized to the tasks that the hydraulic system is expected to perform and then you size the engine to the pump. The larger the pump and/or the larger the PSI, the need for more HP is readily apparent.

 

[mikebramel]

Some guy who couldnt afford to pay $700-900 for the stock 6018 pump and had to go to surplus center for $150. You can see where the problem is, The purple line is where Im at, but the blue line is what is being delivered. Not enough.

Dashed lines are hydraulic demand and the solid lines are engine power. The lines arent smooth because its hard to read the Onan charts in 5HP increments.

Im going to lower the relief valve and see what the power will be. I was talking to a guy who said he sheared the bolts in his rear end 3 times because of the ballast the backhoe provides. He said it has a lot more power than the Allmand he upgraded to, but the backhoe was alot of weight for the little tractor.

Even if I had to put a 24/25 Onan in it would still be cheaper. The backhoe section is perfect, 1/2" CUBE.

If only I knew how to use it LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySdM3iZ0Ymg

That is a tree stump right next to the rock, it took that out the next day

 

[WVshooter]

I REALLY want one of those.....

Anywho, a question I've wondered about before that is somewhat related - can a two stage pump be used in an application like this to speed low-load movements, but provide the extra "grunt" when needed?

 

[mikebramel]

Im not sure what you mean, this has a "dual" or "tandem" pump. Basically two pumps, driven by one shaft, in "one" (separate able) housing, rated for 3300psi continuously. The large section goes to the drive motor and PTO (if equipped) and smaller section goes to the backhoe then to the steering and loader valve. You wouldnt need more pressure and this provides pretty smooth power

 

[WVshooter]

I see. I didn't know that about 600/6000 pumps.

I've just always wondered how a two stage pump (think wood splitter) would work on any of the Case/Ingersoll tractors.

 

[mikebramel]

For reference the 600 have the pump just like the 200/400 series

 

[Hydriv]

I've just always wondered how a two stage pump (think wood splitter) would work on any of the Case/Ingersoll tractors.

It won't.

Here's why.

Suppose you install a 2 stage pump that puts out 10 GPM at 3600 RPM and 0 PSI into your Case. This pump is designed to switch to the 2nd stage just as soon as the pressure exceeds 700 PSI and then it only delivers 4 GPM. OK... everybody clear on that?

So....it's now spring time and you bring out the tractor for the first time with this new pump and take it for a spin. It works great so you decide to mow the lawn. Once again, it works great and you are really happy. It's a nice day in late April and you decide it's time to prepare the veggie garden for planting so out comes the tiller and you hook it up. You drive into the garden, rev up the engine to full throttle, engage the PTO and lower the tiller into the soil. Almost immediately, the tiller slows to just a few RPM and you don't understand what's wrong.

ANSWER: Driving the tractor around and even cutting the grass, did not cause the system pressure to exceed 700 PSI because you mowed in Lo Range and drove slowly. However, the tiller is far more demanding when it comes to pressure and the second the tines hit the dirt, the pressure soared right on by the 700 PSI kick in point for the 2nd stage. Instead of the needed 10 GPM going to the tiller motor, it's only getting 4 GPM and now it's rotating at 40% of what the engineers designed it to spin.

The same thing would happen if you were out mowing grass on level ground and then had to climb a steep grade, your ground speed would slow to a crawl until the system pressure dropped lower than the cut-in point for the 2nd stage.

A pump like that would drive you nuts but don't worry. I doubt that there is even enough room to install one unless you cut a whackin' big hole in your dash tower.

 

[WVshooter]

And this is why I come here.

Thanks!

 

[Mjoe7]

So did you end up with the LX990? I bid it to the reserve and left it for whoever wanted it worse. :thumbup:
Interesting stuff...

 

[mikebramel]

I did not. Hopefully I can pick up the Onan NHsomething puzzle on Saturday

From the brochure it has the N series as a flat torque curve, 40ft lbs 1600-2800, T260 peaks at about 2400

 

[grummy]

I see. I didn't know that about 600/6000 pumps.

I've just always wondered how a two stage pump (think wood splitter) would work on any of the Case/Ingersoll tractors.

An off the shelf two stage (woodsplitter) pump would not work well at all ! They specifically have a very low relief pressure point to send it into "low gear". You would continuously be sent into high and low mode of operation as loads varied continuously.

You would be driving along ripping like crazy, and then on a hill it would be able to handle, drop into low.... and back again.

Now, IF you can buy a two stage that allows the user to dictate the volume of the low range pump AND adjust the change point, THAT would be something to play with. You would still have to spend a great deal of time though establishing the best possible GPM delivered in low. Most splitter pumps like this have a very large spread... things really slow down in the power range considerably. On a tractor, you would want it to only drop enough % to allow the engine to recover, not much unlike you see older tractors be able to drop a small % when they throw those hydraulic range control handles at a tractor pull.

 

[Hydriv]

If that's the sort of performance that you want, then here's what you do.


- Leave the OEM pump in place along with the complete hydraulic system.

- remove all of the EZ clutch parts from the main shaft and then modify that shaft to drive a hydro-static pump that would be dedicated to the drive motor.

- use a hydraulic drive snowcaster and mower deck that would be powered by the OEM pump


Instead of having a pump with 2 fixed flow rates, you would have a pump with an infinite flow rate from zero to max.