OEM rims are 8" wide ... several owner's have used the 9.5-16's ... I believe the fit, though the clearances are quite tight. There are 8-16 Ags still out there for the original look, also.

Brian

 

If you plan on using chains on whatever tires you purchase then make sure you take that into consideration when choosing the width. The chain on the LH side of the tractor may come in contact with the the drive motor on the rear axle. Ask me how I know this. :facepalm:

 

There are half a dozen companies making 8-16an tires in turf and lugs. There are also plenty used tires up for sale in numerous places. I just got a pair on evilbay for a hundred bucks with rims in nice shape.

 

Thanks for all the replies. I saw a new set of 8x16 AG tires mounted on 8" wide rims. The rims appeared too wide for the tires with the tire beads pulled too far apart. The tread lugs were narrower than the rim width. I think the 8x16 tire would work best on a 6" rim where as the 9.5X16 Carlisle tire is specified for an 8" rim. Can you still find new OEM turf style tires as originally supplied on these tractors?

 

Green,
I did the OEM 8-16 center transfer> To the 12-16.5 R4 skidsteer tire rim. The center fit perfectly into the 16.5 rim pilot
"IF, You build your own custom rims as 220/4 pointed out,. Leave room for chains If, U want, Or think you might want, To use chains.

If you decide to run the 9.5s on the OEM 8-16 rims and also run chains, you can easily rectify any verticle clearence problems using steel wheel spacers.

I had to use a 1/2" spacer between the fender and the mount, Because I used a taller tire then OEM. If I had to do It over again I would have used a shorter tire,..Because the OEM travel pressure setting coupled with the hydraulic motor CI disp dont like the taller tires as much.

I could have more pulling torque with shorter tires.

But,.. It should work out for the best, Now that Ive read about MMs 2xx motor transfer..

Iam planing to following Mad Mackies 2xx Drive motor transfer to get into that sweet spot of pump-motor-tire ratio.

kubotakid :usa2:

 

Thanks for all the replies. I saw a new set of 8x16 AG tires mounted on 8" wide rims. The rims appeared too wide for the tires with the tire beads pulled too far apart. The tread lugs were narrower than the rim width. I think the 8x16 tire would work best on a 6" rim where as the 9.5X16 Carlisle tire is specified for an 8" rim. Can you still find new OEM turf style tires as originally supplied on these tractors?

I'm looking to replace my rear tires also. Here are the specs for the 8 - 16 Ag Tires (for 6" wide rims) that I have found:

Carlisle 31.3" H x 8.5" W
Super Strong 31.1" H x 8.3" W
Speedways Grip King 30.5"H x 8.0"W
Harvest King 31.4"H x 8.9"W

I assume the above width dimension is the section width and not the tread width.

I have not found any 8 - 16 turf replacements besides some expensive 750-16 Goodyears with a "unique" tread pattern. The tires on my 444 are branded Armstrong Turf King (the tread width measures approx 8" and the section width approx 9.5"). McCreary (Specialty Tires fo America?) also made some 8 - 16 turf tires at one time.

 

If it helps, here's a couple links to Titan Tire....they bought out the Goodyear Ag tire brand. I've seen this in a few internet pics of owner tractors but I'd guess you pay an arm and both legs (ag lug type)

http://www.titanstore.com/search/size/8-16
http://www.titanstore.com/info/48D667
http://www.titanstore.com/info/4DQ667GY

 

Thanks for all the replies. I saw a new set of 8x16 AG tires mounted on 8" wide rims. The rims appeared too wide for the tires with the tire beads pulled too far apart. The tread lugs were narrower than the rim width. I think the 8x16 tire would work best on a 6" rim where as the 9.5X16 Carlisle tire is specified for an 8" rim. Can you still find new OEM turf style tires as originally supplied on these tractors?

The 8" wide rims you found are not original. An 8x16 rim is meant for a 9.5/11L tire. Every tire has a design rim width. You need to stay within those approved sizes or risk damage to tires, rims, and equipment. I'm not on here to argue these FACTS with anybody. I have been working part time changing tires at a buddy's shop for over 15 years. KK putting a tire on a rim that's 2" narrower than design width causes the tread to arch more and thus puts more stress on the center of the tread and sidewalls. Same thing goes when guys put huge rear tires on skinny rims on farm tractors. I have seen rims crack and fail, mangled equipment and thousands of dollars in junk tires. Follow your tire charts. Also, mounting 8-16 tires on a W8-16 rim will cause the sidewalls to spread and the tread to drop in height and also greatly increases your chance of spinning the tire on the rim. The sidewalls of most tires says: to be mounted and dismounted by properly trained professionals. I go every other year to Des Moines IA for a Titan tire training course to keep his insurance company happy.

 

1031d,
Whut..?.? What part of my post suggested that I changed anything about the rim width???

RE read it..FACT. I only swaped the center out of a 448 OEM rim> Into a skid steer OEM rim..

kubotakid :usa2:

 

You were talking about putting 9.5-16's on stock rims. You wrote it, you read it again. Seems you are always the first guy to pick a fight with a mirror.

 

The 8" wide rims you found are not original. An 8x16 rim is meant for a 9.5/11L tire. Every tire has a design rim width. You need to stay within those approved sizes or risk damage to tires, rims, and equipment. I'm not on here to argue these FACTS with anybody.

I have two sets of known original 4xx wheels on the shelf now. Both pairs are 8" wide, stamped Firestone. Both had the unique Case tread 8:00 X 16 badly weathered and cracked tires mounted from the factory.

 

Okay Kenc, you made me do actually quite a bit of digging that ended up with a call to a friend who works in R&D at Titan Tire. The only approved rim contours listed for an 8-16 tire is a 6L, 6.00F, 6LB. A 6L, 6.00F, 6LB is a 6" wide rim. I called my buddy because I went out and measured my 195, 446, and a spare set, all 8" wide. He had referred me to the Firestone/Ford problem where Firestone said here's our tires and here is the design specs and Ford basically ignored them because of their own designs and thoughts and ran lower pressures for a better ride quality causing numerous blowouts, deaths, and lawsuits. I am not debating this simply using it for reference. If you look at any rear high wheels you will notice the sidewall is flat and straight off the rim. Tires are not designed to be ran this way but we had a feeling CASE/COLT did it to lower the tire height and increase floatation. Just for shits and grins I took a spare tire off and mounted it on an approved rim, and it is around 3" taller because the sidewalls were pulled in making the tread rise. Interesting enough. KK, you were right, 9.5L-16's will fit perfectly on stock rims. I will leave you with this. In the government and numerous tire manufacturers catalogs there is a section on safety and tire mounting/dismounting. Next time you want to weld on a rim, it's a liability just like your larger mower pulley idea. Liabilities=negligence in court should someone get injured. Food for thought. "Do not, under any circumstances, attempt to rework, weld, heat, or braze any rim base or wheel components." This is copied from this catalog. If the manufacturer does not want you to modify their products there may be a good reason why.............................. :headscratcher:

http://www.titan-intl.com/files/safety.pdf

By the way, I am not and will not argue tire/rim bullshit with any of you. I am a trained certified tire installer according to Titan/Goodyear AG and Firestone International. I have seen a lot of guys get hurt and one of my co-workers was decapitated about 15 years ago by a welded rim that shattered upon the beads seating. Yes, it was in an OSHA approved cage. Google it, not an isolated incident. Not funny. A lot of guys think they are God's gift to a welder and know everything about everything. "Jack of all trades but master of none"

 

I am not about to refute a single thing that 1031d said in his latest post.

However.........I don't think that we should lose sight of perspective here, either. Safety should always be priority 1, no matter what sort of of work is being performed on these tractors or by these tractors. Depending upon how a tractor is set up and the work that the tractor is asked to perform, tire inflation pressures can be as low as 4 PSI or as high as 15 PSI.. Ground speeds do not exceed 9 MPH and no one does any work at that speed. Air pressure is there to perform two tasks. The first task is to keep the tire bead firmly seated against the rim edge. The second task is to support the weight of the tractor and in doing so.....keeping the sidewall of the tire relatively straight.

I cannot speak for anyone else but I don't have any fear based on the possibility of a tire blowing out at 9 MPH while having 15 PSI of air in it.

These discussions are great but once again I feel the need to point out the fact that rim width, inflation pressures or tire-related injuries do not show up on any CCI forum. Colt, Case and Ingersoll have used the same rim since 1964 on the big wheel tractors and they are still using them today. If there were any sort of problems with the tire/rim combo, then wouldn't a percentage of the many thousands of owners mentioned this to the hundreds of dealers? And wouldn't those hundreds of dealers complained to Winneconne?

I have a Colt 2710 with the original Ag tires still on it. Not bad for 46 years and I'm pretty sure they are 2 ply carcasses.


Why is there this burning need to make changes to these tractors when there is no overwhelming evidence that change is needed? Can ANYBODY demonstrate a true need to run tires larger than 8:00 x 16" on the back of these tractors? Or does the KOOL factor overwhelm the old adage......If it ain't broke...leave it alone.???

 

If you look at any rear high wheels you will notice the sidewall is flat and straight off the rim. Tires are not designed to be ran this way but we had a feeling CASE/COLT did it to lower the tire height and increase floatation.
I am a trained certified tire installer according to Titan/Goodyear AG and Firestone International.

I think the real reason for this has to do with loading. The tire makers rim width recommendation is based on the recommended maximum loading of the tire. The combination is selected so that the tire tread is flat and making maximum surface contact at the max load . Since our machines never see the tires max load, the tires are mounted on wheels that will allow the tread to assume that flat, max contact position at the expected load and pressure. Would be a totally different story if they were loaded to a couple of thousand pounds with 35 psi in them.

I'm also a certified installer, or was before I gave that up. Lots of other things I'd rather do.

Like work on Cases!

All that stuff about modifying etc, is 1% engineering concern and 99% lawyer talk.

Well designed and executed changes can be just as safe and reliable as stock hardware.

After all, the original is just a single way of getting the job done, not the only way.

The key is careful examination of the method of modification and intended use.

 

All that stuff about modifying etc, is 1% engineering concern and 99%the lawyer talk.

Kenc, its because we have so many sue happy lawyers that we need to take safety concerns into consideration when modifying something.

 

...Why is there this burning need to make changes to these tractors when there is no overwhelming evidence that change is needed?...

Some feller over on MTF started the whole thing! :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh: :sidelaugh:

Sorry I just can't help myself. :mrgreen:

 

When will we switch the conversation to stacking dual 8-16's? I need greater flotation on my lawn because the ground pressure is currently too great with singles and they're bending my grass blades over. :sidelaugh:

 

..... I need greater flotation on my lawn because the ground pressure is currently too great with singles and they're bending my grass blades over. :sidelaugh:

Well, Eastman is the maker of the Hovermower!

 

..... I need greater flotation on my lawn because the ground pressure is currently too great with singles and they're bending my grass blades over. :sidelaugh:

Well, Eastman is the maker of the Hovermower!

Yeah, the answer to the question nobody asked. It's for people with too much money and too many toes.......

 

Yeah, the answer to the question nobody asked. It's for people with too much money and too many toes.......

??? That's a pretty useful machine and enormously common ... I'll bet there are some within about 10 miles or so of you, if you live anywhere common.

Now granted, we don't all have the slopes of a golf green or sand trap to mow, but hover mowers (and by other brand names) are quite common out there ...

I've got a non-golf course customer here who maintains some challenging ditches and landscaping areas who has 3 of them for his crew ...

Brian

 

How intelligent you are is related directly to where you are standing, I suppose. I have never seen a hover mower in my area, nor a dealer that sells them. However, the average yard here is measured in multiple acres and typically isn't very flat at all.

I certainly wouldn't condemn anyone for using one, but having not been around them, I don't see how they would be beneficial over a good push mower and weedeater.

 

They are often used to cut long grass on the sides of highways that have slopes too steep to be mowed with equipment that is manned directly. The Operator of a Hovermower can stand safely on the flattened top of the slope and allow the Hovermower to descend the slope while controlling it by a rope he is holding. On slightly safer inclines, the Operator can make sweeping motions with the Hovermower due to the lack of ground contact. Yes.... there are Ag tractors that have flail mowers mounted on the ends of an articulated boom which can cut steep slopes but even those have limitations due to access and reach. The Hovermower is simply a solution to a problem but I would not choose one to mow my lawn with in lieu of a standard push-type 21" rotary mower.

 

8.00 X 16 Ag tires are designed initially to fit onto 6 inch wide wheels. Case/Ingersoll rear wheels are 8 inches wide with a deep offset to provide clearance for the drive motor. The Titan Ags that I bought years ago came mounted on 6 inch wide wheels. These wheels fit onto my 448 with no problem, but there were two conditions. The 1st being that the lug bolt holes were not chamfered and 2nd the plastic encased wheel weights when installed rested against the bent edges of the welded offset. When the plastic wheel weights are installed on Case/Ingersoll 8 inch wide wheels they rest against the wheel just inside the bead diameter and do not make contact with the welded in offset. As has been noted, if tire chains are desired, then an 8.00 X 16 tire is most desirable and they fit fine on Case/Ingersoll 8 inch wide wheels. Wider tires have a lower weight on footprint and may provide less traction. Bill H now has the 8.00 X 16 6 PR R-1 Titan Ags mounted on 8 inch Ingersoll wheels. Tom Goldencove now has the 6 inch wheels with 7.50 X 16 Ags mounted on them on his 448.
Mad Mackie in CT

 

You were talking about putting 9.5-16's on stock rims. You wrote it, you read it again. Seems you are always the first guy to pick a fight with a mirror.

1031d,
Yes I waz, Talkin about putin 9.5s on OEM 8" rims,

I waz only trying to help a friend get threw his forseable problem.

I dont know why you want to fight.

Iam not here to help u do that,..

Please, Dont, stand so close to your mirror.. You are bettin the chit out of yourself....

kubotakid :usa2:

 

1031d,
Yes I waz, Talkin about putin 9.5s on OEM 8" rims,

I waz only trying to help a friend get threw his forseable problem.

I dont know why you want to fight.

Iam not here to help u do that,..

Please, Dont, stand so close to your mirror.. You are bettin the chit out of yourself....

kubotakid :usa2:

Seems like you've been hitting the sauce again as that's when the "interesting" posts show up. Do I need to quote all the posts including the one that was locked where you get so off topic arguing about imaginary things? Seems CASE/Ingersoll has made such an inferior machine in your eyes that you feel the need to change and re-engineer everything. You are the only guy on here who complains about everything from mower deck speed to steering gears, bearings, bushings, and even the lift link for your plow blade and the general construction of the blade. If these tractors were such ill designed machines then why do they fetch as much money as comparable green machines? Not everything is perfect but I have yet to hear you praise one of these machines. You have a lot of posts that if read to their entirety have a lot of contradictions in them and you ultimately end up arguing with yourself which apparently is only solved by a bottle of sauce and some new words that not even Webster himself knew about.